leader butt size compared to Rio AFS size
- Thread starter gotsteel
- Start date
leader butt size
Hi Gotsteel,
being new on the forum it took a while before i found your question. It interested me because i have another problem using RIO's AFS shooting heads. But first about this butt size. Being Flemish i have had the privilege to become friends with Guido Vinck (7 times world champion precision casting) and he taught me that the ideal leader butt size corresponds with the figure of the line weight ... in the metric system!
In your case, using a 6/7 line that would mean using a leader butt of minimum 0.060 cm or 60/°°(#6) and maximum 0.070 or 70/°° (#7) to insure maximal energy transfer. I've done a bit of arithmetics and these diameters coincide with the .026'' you have in mind (.026x2.4 cm = 0.0624 or roughly 0.062 cm or 62/°°). So in my opinion you are spot on. From there you can go on : #8 takes a 80/°° leader butt and so on. On the other end : #4 for example asks for a 40/°° leader butt. I hope this can help you, it sure works for me!
Now for my problem: spey casting with a combination of RIO's 8/9 floating SH (34 gr.), a 10' intermediate polyleader (+/- 3 gr.) and about 10' fluorocarbon leader about half of my casts the whole thing collapses in the air resulting in a heaped leader. I use a Vision DH Catapult 14' #10 (34 gr.) so my line weight seems right (the #9/10 is too heavy weighing 38 gr.)and I've done about everything to get the errors out of my casting technique without result. I must say that i cast consistently in the 100' to 120' range but there's always a few yards of running line left laying at my feet and i don't stop the line by hand at the end of the cast. I wonder if that is the problem: the line collapses due to sudden loss of energy and no significant counter friction. Would that mean that one has to pull off the exact amount of line you want to cast and cast unto the reel to straighten the leader?
Tight lines
Johan
Hi Gotsteel,
being new on the forum it took a while before i found your question. It interested me because i have another problem using RIO's AFS shooting heads. But first about this butt size. Being Flemish i have had the privilege to become friends with Guido Vinck (7 times world champion precision casting) and he taught me that the ideal leader butt size corresponds with the figure of the line weight ... in the metric system!
In your case, using a 6/7 line that would mean using a leader butt of minimum 0.060 cm or 60/°°(#6) and maximum 0.070 or 70/°° (#7) to insure maximal energy transfer. I've done a bit of arithmetics and these diameters coincide with the .026'' you have in mind (.026x2.4 cm = 0.0624 or roughly 0.062 cm or 62/°°). So in my opinion you are spot on. From there you can go on : #8 takes a 80/°° leader butt and so on. On the other end : #4 for example asks for a 40/°° leader butt. I hope this can help you, it sure works for me!Now for my problem: spey casting with a combination of RIO's 8/9 floating SH (34 gr.), a 10' intermediate polyleader (+/- 3 gr.) and about 10' fluorocarbon leader about half of my casts the whole thing collapses in the air resulting in a heaped leader. I use a Vision DH Catapult 14' #10 (34 gr.) so my line weight seems right (the #9/10 is too heavy weighing 38 gr.)and I've done about everything to get the errors out of my casting technique without result. I must say that i cast consistently in the 100' to 120' range but there's always a few yards of running line left laying at my feet and i don't stop the line by hand at the end of the cast. I wonder if that is the problem: the line collapses due to sudden loss of energy and no significant counter friction. Would that mean that one has to pull off the exact amount of line you want to cast and cast unto the reel to straighten the leader?
Tight lines
Johan
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100 to 120ft seems far enough to me! Having said that I have seen decent casters lose leader turnover and the problem sometimes is too much "top hand". A simple trick/test is to move the top hand down the handle until it is just above the reel - then cast again as normal. It might feel very odd - but it will stop the top hand dominating. The results can astonishing! If your leader turnover improves then you must learn to be more bottom hand dominant.
BTW: why 10 ft of leader? I use about 2ft!
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Thanks Editor,
you are right i've been holding the rod high with the top hand thinking it would give me a better leverage. Will try that as soon as the lake in front of my house thaws out! As for the leader length: i've read (but then again you can pick up some bad habits believing everything you read!) that a long leader prevents the salmon seeing your fly-line, especially in clear water...and i always thought (and felt) that a long leader gave me a better anchor. Perhaps i must try to anchor my polyleader and speed up my forward movement a fraction to prevent it sinks? In that perspective i've read a post by Randy wherein he advocates to use 15' polyleaders with 14/15' rod. Will try that as well...
Wow 2' leaders...thought they only worked with heavy sinkers in high water. I guess you only use longer leaders on a floater? Time to rethink my tactics...
Best regards,
Johan
you are right i've been holding the rod high with the top hand thinking it would give me a better leverage. Will try that as soon as the lake in front of my house thaws out! As for the leader length: i've read (but then again you can pick up some bad habits believing everything you read!) that a long leader prevents the salmon seeing your fly-line, especially in clear water...and i always thought (and felt) that a long leader gave me a better anchor. Perhaps i must try to anchor my polyleader and speed up my forward movement a fraction to prevent it sinks? In that perspective i've read a post by Randy wherein he advocates to use 15' polyleaders with 14/15' rod. Will try that as well...
Wow 2' leaders...thought they only worked with heavy sinkers in high water. I guess you only use longer leaders on a floater? Time to rethink my tactics...
Best regards,
Johan
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No, Gotsteel, as I said Guido Vinck taught me to do it this way and it worked for me! I must add that he advised me to use only 50 cm of the thickest nylon and then to gradually taper down according to preference (slow or fast, long or short leader). The purpose of the "thick" butt is to minimise or even eradicate the hinge effect and in his case to avoid losing accuracy on the precision cast.
Johan